Talk:Iron Sentinels
I can see you put some work in on this one. However I feel compelled to point out a few issues. For the most part you don't have too many canon issues. The single biggest issue you have are the vehicles. No Chapter founded after the Horus Heresy has any business having that many crusade era vehicel. Having one or two would be something. Furthermore it's been outright stated that no Chapter outside those that participated in the Great Crusade have Javelins. That is sadly NCF. I would scale back on all the Relic vehicles. The other issue I would like to bring up is the part about their First Company Veterans going around and adventuring whenever they like. Something you have to keep in mind about Warhammer 40k is that Space Travel is not as easy and convenient as in other settings, and in order to go off on an adventure these Veterans would have to be given a ship from the fleet, which is no small thing. Plus the Chapter would not simply allow it's most powerful and respected warriors to go running off whenever they liked. What if they had need of them? The next issue I feel the need to point out is with their notoriety and their recruitment. To start out with a Chapter that prioritized protexcting the citezens of the Imperium would probably be very well known, not less. After all the survivors would likely tell of the Marines valor, no? Next I doubt any Codex Compliant Chapter would recruit memberas from all over the IMperium. They have a Homeworld which would be able to provide more than enough recruits for a standard Chapter, plus you have them recruiting from the other worlds in their system. They have no need to go so far afield for more troops, and no Chapter is so famous that they draw troops from the breadth of the entire Imperium. Beyond these there are a few things that I find aren't necessarily breaches of Canon, but are in bad taste. The first is the name dropping. You have them very intimately invovlved with a number of notable Canon Chapters. I know this seems like it would raise their profile, but it actually hurts it since it gives the impression that those famous chapters are needed just to make this one seem interesting. The biggest one was their involvement on Baal. The Blood Angles aren't going to give rewards and become even firendlier with a Chapter just because they showed up after the battle was over. Plus the bit about the Iron Sentinels that were present being deemed more ferocious than Death Company Marines was a bit outrageous. Finally it's said in the article that the Captain of the 8th Company is the "Most enthusiastic Marine in the universe". Really? Come on. That's a bit of an outrageous claim. In general these guys suffer from a case of the Mary Sues and a slight lack of identity. However that doesn't mean this is a bad article so to speak. With some polishing it could be perfectly fine. If you need any help with that I would be happy to offer my services. I am your master! At your service. (talk) 08:13, May 16, 2015 (UTC) Hey there! I read through your advice for altering both of my pages, and will reply here. First, I wanted to thank you for your input. I have noticed some points that you have made, and, where I agree, have changed them accordingly. However, there were some points I want to reply to. The main point is that my army page here is based upon a Tabletop army I actually posses, and as I see from your page you're not a tabletop player, I feel the need to point out that there are (experimental) rules for using the likes of the Javelin Speeders and such in games of 40k. Of course, no sucessor chapters ''should ''have access to old and powerful relic vehicles, which is why I altered my posts a few days ago to say that the Sentinels possesing Relic vehicles, and in particular Javelins, was a rumour, though I forgot to change the writing to reflect this, and will do so. Secondly, I wanted to point out that the First Company Veterans do not have the ability to wander off whenever they like, they require submitting a peition to Chapter Master to leave the Chapters' homeworld. It is a big deal to see off even a squad of Sternguard, it's true, but here I am allowing myself a fluff reason to use my Sternguard in games of Kill Team. This by no means implies that the majority of the First Company are out gallivanting around the galaxy, and a sucessful petition is supposed to be a big deal, and I shall make that clearer in the article. Next, I purposefully left the reasons for their lack of fame ambiguous. While you have a point about the home system, at no point did I say they recruited from across the galaxy, only that males of an appropriate age could ask to be considered to join the chapter. They aren't quite the same thing. While I admit I have the consistent problem of name-dropping, no matter what article I write, I see no real issue with involving a single squad at the battle of Baal. I did not write this squad as single-handedly turning the battle, nor outpacing the Blood Angels and their Sucessors. Neither did I claim that particular squad of being 'more ferocious' than Death Company Marines, only remarking that they had been observed as 'Just as sucidical' which fits when you consider how stubborn they are supposed to be. The original wording of the description of the Captain of the 8th as 'The most enthusiastic Space Marine in the Universe' was NOT presented as fact. It was merely presented as an opinion, and as such, do not see the problem, though I have altered the wording. Addiontionally, I would like to merely point out that nothing was said about them being faster, stronger, smarter or tougher than any other marine, so I have to take issue with your description of them as 'Mary-Sues', instead saying that I wrote them to be good at what they do, as would any writer here, and as they should be. After all, is a fan wiki page really a place to belabour defeats and flaws without a reason? Anyways, thank you again for your input, both here and on the Solar Knight Page. I shall consider my facts more thoroughly in the future. 00:14, May 17, 2015 (UTC) I appreciate what you're saying but I feel that I should point out that what you do with these guys in Tabletop or other games doesn't matter here. We go by the lore, and nothing else. So a lot of writers find that when they bring their armies over from Tabletop to this site they have to make changes to make them more realistic within the confines of the Canon. The reason I state them as being Mary Sues is more an issue of attitude rather than ability. "Good Guys" don't fit well within the setting. I would advise giving them a few more character flaws. I think you'll find that these guyswould be more appealing if you darkened them a little. I am your master! At your service. (talk) 01:10, May 17, 2015 (UTC) reading both sides here....well let me put it like this for both 1st: the expectation put out by codex lore vs the delusion breaking Table Top. Codex Space Marines 5th edition made claims that every space marine wished to be a ultra marine, and that the ultra marines were undeniably the best space marines in the universe. Just today Abbaddon proved that wrong, my Skitarii overwhelmed Ultramarines in almost a single turn in Tabletop and then suffered against the might of the Chaos marines. but at the same time in Table Top there are many factors that can't be considered and it all breaks down to a number crunch with some cleaver measurements mixed in. where as lore opposed to tabletop has Space Marines taking whole swarms of orks head on, and wearing armour that couldn't fail against measly auto-pistols using ammunition equivalent to a musket ball. Lore puts SM at the top of the elite and most expensive troops humanity has ever wasted resources on and having chapter masters and land raiders lost to simple skirmishes seems wrong in every way. This is why i like to use things like the Deathwatch and similar games to get a feel for middle ground before writing SM (or in my case admech) who galavant about joining in far too many wars and throwing their lives away like they are cheep single wound guardsmen. 2nd setting, this is the 40k it's grim and dark but as with 6th and 7th ed and with the roleplays there has been some element of sci-fy and hope returned to the setting (if only to have it routinely crushed and thus establish deeper levels of grimdark) having sternguard going about is alright supah, there actually are privately owned warp cappable ships, they are usually sized for a crew of 10 to 100 make veerrrrrrryyyyy short jumps (tau's dick short or long enough to be considered human worthy idk) and have just as much if not more risk of warp fuckups due to likely lack of navigators. also noted these ships are more rare due to the fact you need to own a permit to travel a trade lane with them and so usually only nobles and governors have any of these is they even bother to travel. this would also permit the iron sentinels some of their minor participations....but more on that in a moment. 3rd supah i have to agree they don't seem mary sue....just so densely noblebright to have some of the more dull characteristics. "we hate chaos due to chaos, we hate bad xenos do to them being bad, we dislike the inquisition because they don't behave noblebright." then some of the quotes. and forgive my offense here but some character immersion would be nice, thus far these guys seem like late teens with a sparkle in their eye and wearing power armour as opposed to grizziled vets. as a good immersion tip try to think of yourself as if you were the squad leader in a TT battle, your 3+ super troopers getting plastered on the wall next to you by some barely a quorter century peice of filth who isn't even a traitor just on the wrong side of a imperial political debate with a gun he never deserved. or blowing through a hoard of orks only to get pie platted to death/severely wounded status by that stompa monstrocity that just suddenly showed up from no where. now all that said and aside reading your pages and responces to Supah, i think to help nip the name dropping in the bud i'd suggest some colaberative work with some of the other authors here. (so you can name drop their guys instead) a few nice settings exist on site to work in but one that's fairly open particularly to SM would be the developing setting known as "The sea of fallen Stars" Thus far none of the authors have inserted any SM in the region (or guard), there is a good set of unique xenos in the region to work with for example Quil'midas, Ox'arcvor, and the Atescrakh Dynasty. also there would be a fair amount of creative freedom as the only established/writen impreial presences in the region are Forgeworld Jovia and the Torchworlds. Allow me a demonstration. This is your body...WITHOUT FIBER! (talk) 04:04, May 17, 2015 (UTC)